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Mark Ferguson from neXtgen Agri brings you the latest in livestock, genetics, innovation and technology. We focus on sheep and beef farming in Australia and New Zealand and the people doing great things in those industries.
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How to Correctly Vaccinate Your Livestock with MSD
Do you vaccinate your livestock correctly? Do you read the label every time? Is your fridge at the correct temperature to store the vaccine? Today we're discussing gold star vaccination protocol with Kim Kelly, a Veterinary Technical Advisor from MSD Animal Health.
Mark and Kim discuss the common pitfalls people often stumble into when administering vaccines. These range from improper storage to incorrect administration and dosage. Kim lends us her expertise in avoiding these errors and how to make the most out of vaccines, so you're getting every cent's worth.
This episode will help you navigate the complexities, including mastering vaccination techniques, avoiding lumps and getting the maximum coverage.
Kim has a few key tips. First up is location, "The location of the injection is really important. Pretty much all the vaccines say to use in the anterior half of the neck, which is right up close, behind the back of the ear. Not the shoulder. There is no reason to inject them as far back as the shoulder."
Next up is the route of administration. "Vaccines will say to inject under the skin. That means you really need to tent the skin and inject it into that tent. I have seen plenty of people say they don't need to do that, that they could use one hand and flick it out with a short needle. They might be able to, but I almost guarantee some of it isn't going where it needs to."
Mark and Kim also discuss the economics of vaccinology. How can you effectively protect large numbers of animals with production costs rising? Kim provides insights into how to prioritise vaccine usage. "We sometimes see people who just do one shot across all their sheep, and they are doing a half job on everyone. It would be better to do a full job on a proportion of your animals rather than a half job on everyone."
Kim also gives more examples of how flexible your vaccination protocol can be if you know your farm and stock well. "For a long time, farmers thought they needed to use "this" vaccine across all their sheep and now we can be a little bit more targeted. So [for] diseases like, for example, clostridial, it's more young animals that are more likely to be naive and haven't come across it naturally. So if we can give them their vaccinations, we can prioritise them."
Mark and Kim also cover minerals in your vaccines and how they can present a toxicity risk when combined with your other veterinary applications. You can find their handy tool for avoiding this here: https://www.sheepvax.co.nz/selenium-dose-calculator/.
Head Shepherd is brought to you by neXtgen Agri International Limited. We help livestock farmers get the most out of the genetics they farm with. Get in touch with us if you would like to hear more about how we can help you do what you do best: info@nextgenagri.com.
Thanks to our sponsors at MSD Animal Health and Allflex, and Heiniger Australia and New Zealand. Please consider them when making product choices, as they are instrumental in enabling us to bring you this podcast each week.
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Welcome to the Head Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, mark Ferguson, ceo at Next Gen Agri International, where we help livestock managers to get the best out of their stock. I want to take this opportunity to thank our friends at MSD Animal Health in Orflex for sponsoring Head Shepherd again this season, and I'm also excited to introduce our mates at Heinegger as brand new sponsors of the show. Msd in Orflex, or perhaps better known as Cooper's Animal Health in Australia, offer one of New Zealand, australia's, largest livestock product portfolios, with a comprehensive suite of animal health and management products connected through identification, traceability and monitoring solutions. Like us, they see how the wealth and breadth of information born out of this podcast can help their men and their farming clients achieve their mission of the science of healthier animals.
Speaker 1:Heinegger will need a little introduction to our audience. A market leader and one-stop shop for wool harvesting and animal fibre removal, together with an expanding range of agricultural products and inputs, the Heinegger name is synonymous with quality, reliability and precision. The Heinegger team have a deep understanding of livestock agriculture, backed by Swiss engineering and a family business dedicated to manufacturing the best. It's fantastic to have both of these sponsors supporting us and bringing Head Shepherd to each week, and now it's time to get on with this week's episode. Welcome back to Head Shepherd. This week we're talking about vaccines. It's a topic that I guess a lot of people are out there thinking about whether they should be vaccinating animals when they should, how they should, and, I guess, when things get tough, things like animal health treatments start coming under question, and we thought it would be a great opportunity today to get MSD's veterinary technical advisor in the lower South Island, kim Kelly, along to talk us through a bit of vaccinology, which is, I'm really looking forward to that. Welcome, kim.
Speaker 2:Great to be here. Thanks for having us on Excellent.
Speaker 1:I guess, yeah, obviously you would deal with people out there asking questions about vaccines and, yeah, I guess, making sure that if you're going to spend the money, you would use them in the most effective way possible. What are the when vaccines are? I guess with something that everyone's been on top of their mind for the last couple of years, with lots of chat around vaccine and whether you should or should not be vaccinating yourself, but the what sort of? I don't seem that very complex, but what are the small mistakes that you sort of see being made out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess first of all, when you say vaccinology, people freak out and think I don't. What on earth is this that we're talking about? And don't worry, I'm not going to go into a lecture of what vaccinology is all about. Essentially, farmers are paying for these vaccines and we want them to be able to get their best bang for buck. So often slight tweaks in the way they're doing it is a way that you can make sure you're going to get the most bang for your buck. So you need to use the vaccines and if you're going to spend X dollars, let's do it well and get the best out of it. I suppose yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So what are the common mistakes that you see, man?
Speaker 2:Just often things like the timing isn't right, the dose isn't right, the site of administration might not be in the right place, might be slightly out of where it should be, even time of year, like in animals involved. So if you do some groups of animals need the vaccines at different times from others and if you can get your timing right, then you might actually end up using less vaccine and save yourself money rather than using more vaccine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair enough, that sounds like a good plan. Often the vaccine fridge is also the beer fridge in the sharing share In terms of storing vaccines. Is there mistakes that we see happening around? That there's certain, I guess, or yeah, there's my favorite.
Speaker 2:My favorite mistake is the farmer rings up and says and this happens every time the shareers have turned down the fridge in their wool shed to keep the beer cold, which means that they're actually freezing their vaccine. And while the vaccine does need to be kept cool, it doesn't like being frozen. So if you do have frozen vaccine, I'm afraid that is an instant chuck it out. It is not going to work. But it's always the shareer's fault and it's always about beer. Everything we're going to talk about today is associated with reading what's on the label. So the farmers in general and I won't specify whether it's male or female farmers, but generally it's male farmers do not read labels.
Speaker 2:And if you did a lot of these little mistakes and you're giving one shot or doing things wrong with the needles, it's actually written on the label. So, firstly, some of those, if you can read the label. But for storage specifically, it's not just how it's stored in your fridge in the wool shed, it's when you then take it up to the paddock or the yards and it might sit in the sun for half a day on the way out there and it is not staying nice and cool. So things like using a chiller bag to transport it from where you buy it from to the farm, and having it in a chiller bag when you're out in the yards in the sun. Things like that are really important and it's going to. In some cases, the vaccine will be destroyed by heat. So there's no point spending all your money and all your time vaccinating when the actual vaccine is probably not going to do its job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, it seems like a bit of a common thing there, like of cold beer and males and not reading labels. It's quite easy to relate to a few of those things.
Speaker 2:The stereotype there. I didn't say that was definitely the case, but yeah, we do have some farmers who openly tell me they have never read the label within the 25 years of farming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think I would probably squeeze under that category. But yeah, yeah, but anyway, there's no label on beer telling you to keep it cold. That's just some ingenuity. So even that little, yeah, that cutlery trip from the shop to the, to the share, to the fridge and the sharing share that should still be enchanted to protect your investment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, and I guess it depends where you are. If you're somewhere in the country that's a hell of a lot warmer than Central Otago in the winter, it's more likely to need to be a problem than down, where it is pretty cool. In fact, I do know of someone who put it in the fridge, beside the fridge, in the wall sheet, and it actually froze because it was that cold Outside. So it would have been better and had been in a chilli bag because it wouldn't have got as cold. So that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Is there any way you can tell that it's either cooked or frozen, or does all still look the same? So yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. But yeah, when it's cooked, obviously it would generally pick it up and it's not cool at all and in some cases that will be fine. It's worth checking with the, the Manufacturer and working out exactly how long it's been like that. But if it's frozen, it will often look different than a parent. There'll be ice crystals in there for a start, yeah, but you can change the color of it as well. So, in general, if you don't know, if in doubt, throw it out, right Don't. And don't use it if you're not sure you don't want it to do any harm to your sheep, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair enough. You do hear of and see the adhesion on carcass and those downgrades that go along with that, and so I guess there's some sort of maybe a vaccine Disadoption for them farmers, because because of that is, what can you do to avoid those lesions happening on on animals?
Speaker 2:and yeah, in general, um, read the label, what you've already talked about. And then I thought already slow, slow down, already, right, like I'm. Unfortunately or unfortunately, we have conveyors. We are. They get paid her animal that gets done. So there's a lot of incentive to get three farms done in one day and when you go really fast you are way more likely to cause damage to the animal than a few Was quarter away for the day.
Speaker 2:So location of the injection is really important. So all, pretty much all the vaccines and all the products that it use, say to use in the interior half of the neck, which is really high upright, so that's the top half, closest to the sky, and it's Right up close behind the back of the ear, not the shoulder. There is no Reason to be injecting them as far back as the shoulder, but it happens on a daily basis. The animals need to be clean and dry. One of my favorite questions I get is my sheep are wet. Can I vaccinate them? And the answer is you can if you change the needle for every animal, and that usually puts people off and they won't vaccinate with animals. And talking of needles, the needle change is really crucial. Right, it'll say once again on the packet 20 to 50 animals or something like that to change the needles. I'm a realist and I know people do not do that, but you will get more lesions if you don't change the needle than if you do change the needle. So I know it takes time but it is totally worth it and you will get less lesions and less lumps if the needles are clean and sharp.
Speaker 2:Don't. A popular thing is dipping the meat needles in mess, which Kind of sterilizes that needle for the one and more that you're about to inject. But it doesn't do anything about sharpness. So so don't Storing. Use needles that have been used for a few hundred sheep and some mess and then using them the next day is not a good idea. My dad did it when we were kids. Oh, it's a common place, you know. So don't do that. Um, what else about lesions? Oh, under the skin versus into the muscle. So a lot of the vaccines will say To inject under the skin the. That means you really need to tend the skin and inject into that tent. I have seen plenty of people say they don't need to do that. They could just use one hand and flick it out with a short needle. They might be able to, but I almost guarantee some of it isn't going where it needs to and you're more likely to get lumps If that's the case. So those are pretty much the things for avoiding lumps.
Speaker 1:So for wet animals, you're Obviously got more bacteria floating around on wet animals.
Speaker 2:That's what's happening You're dragging bacteria into the skin and yeah and the same with blunt ones, right and dirty animals that have been I'm a good one is recently dipped. If they've been Saturation dipped with some brown water, which is kind of what it looks like, Then you'll notice the dirty, and so every time you're sticking the needles through that you're an risk of introducing more bacteria and Bugs and stuff in, and that risk is like doubled or tripled if they have got a blunt needle as well. So the the sharper and cleaner your needle are, the less chance you have of dragging these bacteria under the skin and causing these abscesses.
Speaker 1:So Just go a little bit nerd for a minute. But the like a normal shearing cut or any other, that lesion don't Well, I don't know don't often result in abscess. So is it some sort of combination of the adjuvant, I don't know? So that word, but you, we are sad. Yeah, and bacteria, that sort of cause the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and often, often a shearing cut is actually reasonably clean and the other benefit it has is it's kind of open, whereas these section site lesions. You've got a little tiny hole in the skin and you've dragged a whole lot of rubbish in Underneath the skin and then that little holes kind of closed over. Which all that environment in there? For you're right, the combination of the stuff that's in the vaccine and and some bugs in there is not usually a good idea, not a good thing for the sheep anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool. Yeah, I guess that all comes back to to speed as well, though people. You see some pretty ordinary situations on conveyors going flat out and jabbing flat out, and probably Sometimes it's somebody that's Summer student or whatever is who's been handed the hand of the vaccinating gun and just into it without really being explained, and kind of, and I don't.
Speaker 2:It's that they need to have had training, but a lot of them they don't have the training and they don't understand that if they don't tend to scan or whatever, it could be detrimental to the, to the animal right. So if you don't understand why something you should do it a certain way. You probably won't do it. So a little bit of Training and if you do have the conveyor, come in, just say to the guy like I've had some kill sheet lesions. I'm really worried about that because you'd be real, real top notch with your needles and that kind of thing. They'll be a really good idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just talk us through tending the skin. So if anyone's, that's basically creating a bit of a lift.
Speaker 2:Using your opposite hand, that you've got the gun and just pinching with, usually, I guess, your thumb and forefinger, and then you will create a little tent and you can imagine a tent of your eye with a triangle. Then you're putting your needle at the bottom of where that tent is. So you're just lifting up and just literally injecting under the skin Rather than into the muscle or into any of the soft tissue. So the of course I need to say for health and safety reasons, you need to be real careful that you don't stab yourself with the needle. And in all cases with most vaccines it will say on the packet once again what to do if you do inject yourself. But generally, yeah, the tenses are a page and then poking the needle to the bottom of. So you don't hit your own fingers and it will. It will be quite obvious to the triangle shape tent that you've got that you're injecting at the base of it.
Speaker 1:And I guess another reason to go. So go a bit slower, because you're going to jam a needle into your thumb otherwise. So if you're going to do it properly, and quick is a guarantee for hurting the animal yourself, or both Excellent. So In terms of needle length, is that? Is there any recommendations there, or is that again on the packet?
Speaker 2:I try to see something If it doesn't. In general in this country anyway, sheep needles come in a couple of the, the diet, the, the ball or the diameter of the needle was actually reversed the way you think so generally for sheep. You've got 18 gauge and then the length is depend is the thing that changes and you've got anything from a quarter of an inch I don't know why we still do this in inches a quarter of an inch right through to one inch but a common For sheep going under the skin would be like 18 gauge, three eighth inch and if it's another vaccine that might need to go into the muscle, you might need to go for a sheep and 18 gauge, half inch or something like that. Cattle you probably go 16 gauge and half inch, to even up to an inch for at least going to the muscle 18 gauge into the muscle always looks like fun.
Speaker 1:I'm glad they didn't do that with COVID vaccine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're quite seeing a lot smaller than 18. I had a much like don't worry, it was a way bigger number than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazingly, I guess, with price cost, price squeeze on the cost of vaccination is something that I don't know people's accountants might be looking at and saying can we get rid of those few dollars out of the budget? But I've seen lots of people lose a lot of good stock with public kidney and lots of different diseases that outbreaks and stuff that makes the cost of vaccine look pretty Pretty much a no brainer to me. But what, I guess? What are your thoughts on how people can justify the cost of vaccination?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a argument with an accountant friend the other night about this. Actually, I think we're arguing where the third laser of vaccines was more important and of course I said that's.
Speaker 1:I'm going to argue that the vet doesn't seem like very sensible argument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess what we look at it is, as you said, a lot of the diseases that we're protecting against with the vaccines that cost some sense. We're saying we're protecting the disease that we're vaccinating against. If they get that, they're going to die. So you're going to have zero value for an animal. So you can probably do some massing work out that you can protect hundreds of animals with a packet of vaccine that costs less, in most cases, than the value of one animal. So doing some turn on investment stuff is pretty good.
Speaker 2:We were a business that's affected by the increase in price, like everyone else, right? So our inputs have gone up. Even the plastic that we put the vaccine in has gone up astronomically and then transplant all this thing. So we're just trying to make sure that you don't make shortcuts and you still use these products without having to cut that cost out. So I would totally say carry on. And some of the vaccines will actually have a body, will they protect against death? They have some production benefits as well. So you can do some cost benefit return on investment stuff on those and in general you are always going to find that this positive.
Speaker 1:A quick interruption here to remind you of Head Shepherd Premium and our consulting services at Next in Agri International. If you love this podcast and want to hear more of them, visit the hubnextinagricom and sign up for Head Shepherd Premium and get an extra podcast each week. If you're listening to this and thinking you really do want to maximize the journey going of your lifestyle and feel more confident around the decisions you're making on farm, then send me an email at mark at nextinagricom and we'll get in touch and see see where that takes us. What are the? I don't know if you've got them off topic here, but in terms of economics, of the diseases that we vaccinate for, I mean the one that I see causing the most grief. I guess it's probably a trade off between pulver kidney and maybe campy or toxa, if they're knocking out heba lambs. Do we know what those numbers are? In terms of which ones are the?
Speaker 2:No, I think that probably the thing with those abortion diseases toxa and campy is when you get, when Aiyun gets those most cases she's all right herself, but she loses one, two, three lambs, I guess. So, and we've also got data showing that you can increase the production using those vaccines because you have less lusors and you actually have less. You might get a little bit more result in your scanning and stuff as well. So yeah, but the clostridials, you are going to get deaths. The annoying thing about them is it's often deaths when the animals are right about ready to go on the truck.
Speaker 1:And the biggest one.
Speaker 2:And the biggest one, all right. So for you that might be more you might get more angry at that than having, you know, 10% of your use bought, but if you do the mass, both of them are significant. I don't have a figure of talking my head, which is significant right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So KC feeding, so KC feeding each other, the mass removal. If the count did win, the argument what's? And so the budget was super tight and you're making a call about which ones in the flock You're gonna vaccinate. Is there any Sensible priority that you can sort out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and For a long time, I suppose, far as of kind of thought right, I need to use this vaccine and all my sheet and we really we can sort of be a little bit more targeted in some cases. So things like diseases, like for example to oxone, can be as you said. It's more young animals so in all cases gonna be more likely to be naive and haven't come across it naturally. So if we can get in and give them their Vaccinations we might be able to prioritize them. Just touching on that we I was gonna talk about earlier but I didn't the the giving a proportion of the animals, the sensitize a booster thing, you know the two shots is Gonna be better than giving all of them one.
Speaker 2:We sometimes see people who just do one shot and cross all their sheep. They've got X amount of dollars to spend. They do one shot and then they kind of doing a half job on everyone. I think you'd be better to do a full job on a proportion of your animals rather than a half job on everyone. I guess pregnant stock we can prioritize like Pre-land treatments based on how many lambs they're gonna have, so you might use a cheaper vaccine for the ones that we're having a single, when you might Prioritize the more expensive things and products for your ones who are gonna have multiples and things like that, and I guess what they each is important as well.
Speaker 2:So if you've got some certainly for the clostridial vaccines If you've got some sheep that are going on to really Rocket fuel high sugar grasses or crops or liver soon or something like that, then they are more susceptible to getting a clostridial disease, like said puppy kidney, then those who are Eating boring old row grass. So there's lots of things you can look at across your whole flock. It shouldn't be a one flock Treatment. It can be broken down into several lots. Use the information you get from scanning and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the differences we see Either side of the ditch and it might be just, I know, maybe, the circles I'm in but one is that in Australia we are, like I, always, we always vaccinated at land marking and then booster at weaning, whereas here a lot of people will sensitize, or at weaning and then a booster, so I'm time after that. Is there either of those any better than each other, or Totally depends what you do pre-lam and the use right.
Speaker 2:So if, depending on what products you use pre-lam and your timing of your pre-lam shot so whether it's two weeks before lambing starts or whether it's a product that could let you go but earlier than that, like further away from Well depend on how much protection you're gonna get in the lambs at the other side. So we guess the thing we don't know there's so much variability and how Each you responds and how good she is at mothering and how much milk she has and how much she's fed that all those Products say up to 12 weeks or up to 16 weeks. They don't say fixed anything, they say up to. So if you have used a product like ideal world, you've used a product pre-lam, the, you has a single. They drink colostrum really quickly. Heaps of antibodies in that colostrum. Those lambs may, in fact, be protected right out to weaning and so they'll be fine. They're not gonna succumb to pulpy kidney or tetanus or anything it. What do you be told it? I call it Taylor, you call it parking, some people call it docking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the the the issue. So that's the ideal situation. But there'll be a proportion of lambs that have. The mother had three. She wasn't as as good a condition so she didn't have as much colostrum. They had a little bit of colostrum each but not really enough, so that their protection might run out before tailing. And the problem is that the farmer can't walk into the panic and go Put your hoof up. If you're protected right now tailing, we could wait if we could. We have to assume worst case scenario right. So there's gonna be a proportion of those lambs that would definitely need to be vaccinated at tailing to protect losses. So while they're sitting there in front of you At docking or marking tailing, that's a good chance to put your first shot in. But yeah, there's so many variabilities. All we can do is try and minimize chances of lambs being completely naive in that fast-growing tailing weaning soon after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and, like I say, they're absolutely sitting perfectly for To give them an injection at that point, and that's probably the only time in their entire life.
Speaker 2:Just because they're lying on their backs with their legs up. Please, please, please, don't inject them in their brisket. And that yeah, no to not do this, do not talk that.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So still Still up high on the neck, obviously. Yeah, totally. Some vaccines, you see, have other minerals mixed in them, which obviously means that if you're deficient in those minerals or the flock is, then you. That's a bit of convenience, other than being handy, because you can see when you miss if it's red. Is there any? Is there any other? Well, I guess what we need to be aware of Is there a risk that we, if we've given vitamins in some other way, that we're almost getting into toxicity problems, or is that not a problem?
Speaker 2:Totally so. It always. If farmers ask me one question once, they ask me a thousand times is why can't you put everything in one shot? Right, and I understand it. It's much more convenient to have lots of things in one injection. They get less injection site reactions if they only stick one needle in.
Speaker 2:So I guess the minerals selenium and B12 are the two big ones and, as you said, the B12 product is red, so it makes it easier to see where you're going. It's easier to see air shots that go straight through and out of the soil. I guess you need to determine whether you actually need those minerals and if it's an appropriate time of year to be giving them, and an appropriate group of animals like it may not be as appropriate in a year as it is in a land. And you're right. Toxicity certainly with selenium B12, you won't have a toxicity problem, but with selenium you could have a toxicity problem. And if you pick up the packets, they generally always say do not use this product If you are not sure of your selenium status or do not use this in combination with any other product.
Speaker 2:We've just developed a tool which is pretty much nearly live, which is a we call it the selenium calculator and it's loaded in all the products that we generally think people are given in this country, so worm drenches, mineral drenches often the preland mineral drenches and the vaccines, the likes of malting and stuff like that. So we've loaded all those products in and we'll make this available so people can have a look and they can put in the way that they use or their lambs and they can choose drop down boxes which products they're going to use and then you just basically look at the bottom. It'll tell you whether you're not using enough selenium, using too much selenium, which can be fatal, or you're in the optimal green range. So it's sort of a traffic light system. So that will be really handy and for helping you out with that toxicity.
Speaker 2:But once again, you need to give enough right. So for selenium, new Zealand's pretty deficient, I think Australia around the coast is pretty deficient too. So using products that have minerals in them might be a convenient way for you to fix that problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, excellent. So there's types of different vaccines on the market and I guess that's one of the things just farmers suffer from generally, is they? There's sort of almost a overwhelm across different products by the time you choose your drenches, choose your vaccines and stuff. What's the? How do farmers work out through that area of information? What are the priority ones?
Speaker 2:I guess have a really good animal health advisor that knows your farm, knows your system, knows your stock and getting them to help you design a plan. I love animal health plans. It's kind of a calendar of what you need to do across the whole year, which animals you need to target and stuff like that. For a long time we've done things because we think perhaps their father did them or a neighbour does it, and often the timing isn't really appropriate for us. So I guess getting an advisor the first step is getting an advisor on board.
Speaker 2:Probably you can do Google's an amazing thing. You can do your own research and look at the products and see why one might be better for you. And then data like a word really hot on evidence based medicine. Right, you need to look at the trial data and if it's New Zealand or Australian trial data, you'd better to show how well those products work on animals in general. So I don't really believe some of the shiny brochures were pretty skeptical and say, no, I want to see the trial data behind that and what's backing that up. And I guess you get what you pay for as an adage, which fits in here as well. Right, some of the products might be cheaper, but, a you might not actually need them on your farm and, b if you haven't got all those other things to back you up, it might be worth considering looking at another one. And if you have that advisor that's going to help you build that plan, they'll be able to help you pick between the products and decide what should be the most applicable for your farm.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So I mean you probably get a few. I imagine you get the odd grumpy farmer ringing up what's the? So a farmer has a problem with one of the vaccines. I guess it's your role to work out, to investigate what's going on. Is that part of what you?
Speaker 2:do? Yeah, definitely. So that's part of I would say it's a big part. We'll go again phases, because things happen at certain times of year and they happen, but it's not a, it's pretty rare.
Speaker 2:But what we will do is if a farmer has used one of our products and feels that either it hasn't perhaps sort of two options perhaps it hasn't provided the protection he expected, he or she expected, or secondly, there's been something adverse happened, so they've maybe had a lump or some lumps or something that they're not happy with, then they contact the person who sold them the product, their reseller, so either a farm retailer or a vet generally and then those people will contact us and we'll do a. It's quite a. In fact it's a huge process for us to enter all that information. We can't just go. They're there, that's a shame. Oh well, we have to log it. We've got 12 hours to load it into our New Zealand system. It's MST New Zealand and then it will go MST Global and then it will go.
Speaker 2:To come back to the ACVM or APVMA in Australia, strict type frames, we'll look at data such as the date, the batch number, whether we've had any other issues with the product, and we'll look for a cause or something's gone on. But I've been around a wee while and then a lot of the investigations that I've been involved in. It's very rare that we actually say this product didn't do what it should have. In general there's something else going on that you can figure out what's happened and why it hasn't performed as expected. But we totally want farmers to contact us or contact the person that they bought it off, and we'll get an investigation underway for them.
Speaker 1:Excellent, so to find that Selenium tool.
Speaker 2:another information is MST website, or is there a particular part of that that should be sending people forwards, or it will be sending on our sheepvax website, which will be wwwsheepvax, with an X V-A-X conz and there will be a tab. We think it hasn't got there right yet, but there will be a tab that says Selenium Calculator and we'll just have to keep that up to date with. If your drench isn't on there, it means it doesn't have any Selenium in it at the moment. But generally we've loaded quite a lot on there, so it should be all good to go. But if you have any questions, you can just call us and we can try and help you with that.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll put all that in the show notes so people can find you. It's great, that'll be excellent. I think we'll be talking vaccination, or certainly did the last muster. So the muster that we're running towards the end of the year will be for young shippers down at Lake Owaya station and be a good opportunity to talk through a bit of practical vaccinology down there with the young people that often get handed the vaccination gun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, and if they have a little bit of understanding. We don't want them to become immunologists, but if they have a little bit more of an understanding about why they're actually doing it, then they will do. I guarantee they will do a much better job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, excellent. Well, thanks very much for your time, kim. I'll let you get back and enjoy your whole frost down there in Wanaka and we'll enjoy a little bit of warmth up north. But yeah, really appreciate you coming on to sharing your knowledge on vaccines and I'm sure people will get a lot out of that.
Speaker 2:Cool, it was great to be here and yeah, I'm with the Kim and Prueb Anytime at like it's not there.
Speaker 1:Excellent Thanks again to our mates in Honega, who are proud world leaders in the manufacturing and supply professional sheep shearing and clipping equipment. They understand that their customers rely on the quality and performance of their products each and every day. Also thanks to our friends at MSD Animal Health in Orflix, the AlfaN extensive livestock portfolio focused on animal health and management, all backed up by exceptional service. Both of these companies are wonderful supporters of the Australian and New Zealand livestock industries and we thank them for sponsoring the HIPAA podcast.
