This week on the podcast, Darren Spencer, President of the Western Australian Shearing Industry Association (WASIA), discusses some of the key issues faced by the wool industry, as well as how wool producers and the shearing industry can work together more effectively in the future.
First up, Darren runs us through what WASIA has done to address the much talked about “shearers’ shortage”.
In the wake of COVID, it was obvious to WASIA that there were not enough new entrants coming into the Australian shearing industry, “So, that meant we had to actually do some training,” he explains. “Through AWI, there was a lot more emphasis put on training new entrants and novices. For the first time ever, you could see guys go to a shearing school, learn how to shear, shearing 50 or 60 a day and they could jump on a stand because the stands were empty.”
Darren says they now have enough shearers in WA and the emphasis has shifted to upskilling them. WASIA have noticed a shortage in shed staff, so that is their new focus.
The next question, if we have enough shearers, is how do we retain them in the industry?
WASIA and AWI have developed the “Safe Sheds - The Shearing Shed Safety Program”. The aim is to help improve safety and efficiency in the shearing shed. The program assists woolgrowers to identify what needs to be fixed and provides a process to follow. “We developed the program and also developed an app with it. The program is set up with four parts. You have an induction, a pre-shearing, a post-shearing and a main full inspection program,” explains Darren.
“That was set up so that we could go to a shed, preferably well before shearing, and run through the program with the farmer and leave him with a list or whatever that needed to be fixed and we could discuss with him the priorities about what needed to happen first,” says Darren.
Follow the link below to find this great resource:
Shearing is an incredibly demanding task and Darren emphasises how important it is for farmers to keep thinking about how they can make the job easier for shearers. There are recent innovations in shearing shed design, such as race delivery systems, that can improve productivity, as well as reduce physical strain on shearers.
Thanks to our sponsors, Heiniger, for setting up this interview. Darren has great insight into the core issues within the shearing industry and we think this episode is a must-listen for all woolgrowers!
Head Shepherd is brought to you by neXtgen Agri International Limited, we help livestock farmers get the most out of the genetics they farm with. Get in touch with us if you would like to hear more about how we can help you do what you do best - info@nextgenagri.com.
Thanks to our sponsors at MSD Animal Health and Allflex, and Heiniger Australia and New Zealand.
These companies are leaders in their respective fields and it is a privilege to have them supporting the Head Shepherd Podcast. Please consider them when making product choices, as they are instrumental in enabling us to bring you this podcast each week.
Check out Heiniger's product range HERE
Check out the MSD range HERE
Check out Allflex products HERE
This week on the podcast, Darren Spencer, President of the Western Australian Shearing Industry Association (WASIA), discusses some of the key issues faced by the wool industry, as well as how wool producers and the shearing industry can work together more effectively in the future.
First up, Darren runs us through what WASIA has done to address the much talked about “shearers’ shortage”.
In the wake of COVID, it was obvious to WASIA that there were not enough new entrants coming into the Australian shearing industry, “So, that meant we had to actually do some training,” he explains. “Through AWI, there was a lot more emphasis put on training new entrants and novices. For the first time ever, you could see guys go to a shearing school, learn how to shear, shearing 50 or 60 a day and they could jump on a stand because the stands were empty.”
Darren says they now have enough shearers in WA and the emphasis has shifted to upskilling them. WASIA have noticed a shortage in shed staff, so that is their new focus.
The next question, if we have enough shearers, is how do we retain them in the industry?
WASIA and AWI have developed the “Safe Sheds - The Shearing Shed Safety Program”. The aim is to help improve safety and efficiency in the shearing shed. The program assists woolgrowers to identify what needs to be fixed and provides a process to follow. “We developed the program and also developed an app with it. The program is set up with four parts. You have an induction, a pre-shearing, a post-shearing and a main full inspection program,” explains Darren.
“That was set up so that we could go to a shed, preferably well before shearing, and run through the program with the farmer and leave him with a list or whatever that needed to be fixed and we could discuss with him the priorities about what needed to happen first,” says Darren.
Follow the link below to find this great resource:
Shearing is an incredibly demanding task and Darren emphasises how important it is for farmers to keep thinking about how they can make the job easier for shearers. There are recent innovations in shearing shed design, such as race delivery systems, that can improve productivity, as well as reduce physical strain on shearers.
Thanks to our sponsors, Heiniger, for setting up this interview. Darren has great insight into the core issues within the shearing industry and we think this episode is a must-listen for all woolgrowers!
Head Shepherd is brought to you by neXtgen Agri International Limited, we help livestock farmers get the most out of the genetics they farm with. Get in touch with us if you would like to hear more about how we can help you do what you do best - info@nextgenagri.com.
Thanks to our sponsors at MSD Animal Health and Allflex, and Heiniger Australia and New Zealand.
These companies are leaders in their respective fields and it is a privilege to have them supporting the Head Shepherd Podcast. Please consider them when making product choices, as they are instrumental in enabling us to bring you this podcast each week.
Check out Heiniger's product range HERE
Check out the MSD range HERE
Check out Allflex products HERE
Welcome to the Head Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, mark Ferguson, ceo at Next Gen Agri International, where we help livestock managers to get the best out of their stock. I want to take this opportunity to thank our friends at MSD Animal Health in Orflex for sponsoring Head Shepherd again this season, and I'm also excited to introduce our mates at Heinegger as brand new sponsors of the show. Msd in Orflex, or perhaps better known as Cooper's Animal Health in Australia, offer one of New Zealand, australia's, largest livestock product portfolios, with a comprehensive suite of animal health and management products connected through identification, traceability and monitoring solutions. Like us, they see how the wealth and breadth of information born out of this podcast can help their men and their farming clients achieve their mission of the science of healthier animals.
Speaker 1:Heinegger will need little introduction to our audience. A market leader and one-stop shop for wool harvesting and animal fibre removal, together with an expanding range of agricultural products and inputs, the Heinegger name is synonymous with quality, reliability and precision. The Heinegger team have a deep understanding of livestock agriculture, backed by Swiss engineering and a family business dedicated to manufacturing the best. It's fantastic to have both of these sponsors supporting us in bringing Head Shepherd to each week, and now it's time to get on with this week's episode. Welcome back to Head Shepherd, our resident sheep. Nerds. Savings found, some more research. What have you found, sophie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's surprisingly not actually on sheep. This week I have ventured into the world of cattle. Well, now I'll start off.
Speaker 2:I was looking into mob grazing behaviours of sheep and I went down the rabbit hole and came across this paper discussing trough water versus pond water and the difference in production, growth etc. On cattle raised on a trough water versus pond, and one of the main things that stood out to me was that the trough steers had a 29% higher ADG than pond steers, which I think is a huge amount of difference. There was also differences in ruminating time, grazing, walking and other behaviour, essentially saying that fresh trough water is better for cattle. Obviously, we all know that, but to put the numbers behind it, such as the 29%, really blew my mind and it just shows how quickly the likes of putting troughs in can compare for themselves. We were talking last week in the podcast about the 1% difference, as you can do and I'm live with Phil Malcolm and Ken Solly about the small things that you can do and yeah, 29% higher ADG is kind of hard to ignore.
Speaker 1:That's a big number and I guess the relevant thing there is. It's probably not how you just like clean water, but you just got to get clean water there. I know in lamb feedlotting it's massive, and cattle as well, but how frequently you clean your troughs is really important for lamb growth rates and cattle growth rates. It's the same story. If it's clean, fresh water, then they're more readily consumed and more on it and therefore grow better. It makes a better sense, but it's good to put some numbers around it. In that case, the fondle dams were less clean than what the trough water was. There would be situations maybe where the opposite is true. If you've got a crappy trough system that hasn't been cleaned and you've got a nice running stream or something, I guess that probably opposite is true. But yeah, so I guess just reiterating the importance of clean water really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also in this paper it said that dairy cattle can trace fecal matter in their water to 0.001%. So, we think livestock aren't sensitive to that kind of thing, but they really are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know they smile than we think half the time this week on the show we had a really great chat with Darren Spencer. He's the President of the Western Australian Shearing Industry Association and a Shearing Contractor on his own right. Valerie Pretzel, who's the executive officer of that group, was meant to join us but unfortunately COVID struck again and so we didn't get Valerie along. It was a really great chat with Darren Spencer. Thanks to Heinegger for setting up that chat. It was Dale Harris there at Heinegger that suggested we have a chat with Darren and it was really great to hear the good work that they're doing now, collaborating with AWI to, I guess, get safety first and foremost in Shearing Shear design and how they, and modification. And yeah, we really had a good chat about that.
Speaker 1:Not sometimes can be a bit of tension between the farmer and the shearer, but Darren's approach is awesome to making sure people are getting the right doing shed audits, getting the right gear in there so that the shearers can perform at their best and that obviously safe working environment contributes positively to the whole industry. So yeah, I really enjoyed, I guess, learning more about from the contractor side of the business and the shearer side of the business and, yeah, I'm sure people out there are going to enjoy this chat with Darren Spencer from WA SIA, western Australian Shearing Industry Association. Welcome, darren Spencer, to Head Shepherd. Thanks, mark, it's great to have you along this. I guess we have two sides in the industry, in the Shearing Industry, so I should introduce you properly. Sorry, you're a president there of the Western Australian Shearing Industry Association and a Shearing Contractor as well. I think, before we get right into it, we might just, I guess, get you to explain what WA SIA does and sort of whereabouts you are in the world, and then we'll go from that.
Speaker 3:Alright, so WA SIA was formed as a group to give Shearing Contractors a voice in WA and to represent WA Shearing Contractors. There was always Shearing Contractors Association of Australia, but it was felt over here that things were a lot different and our circumstances were different. So there was a group set up, WA Shearing Contractors Association in 1987 and that worked long until I probably couldn't get my years right about 2012 when we decided we'd win in numbers of contractors in WA that we would open it to an industry association to let TAFES and GROWER groups become members of our association so that we had a stronger voice and as an association we give information to our members with rates and any changes in the industry. We lobby Parliament a little not a lot, but we do lobby them a little for funding and for things like workers' compensation and payroll tax that we've lobbied them with over the years. Also, part of it was when it was WA Shearing Contractors Association they lobbied for a separate award.
Speaker 3:So Western Australia is quite unique in that two awards cover Western Australia. So anyone that is just a partnership or a private enterprise is covered by the Western Australian Shearing Industry Award and those that are BTY, Limited companies and trust are covered by the Federal Pastoral Award, and then we throw another complex one into it where we have a third set up, where in 2012, when the Federal Pastoral Award roped everyone in, we set up enterprise agreements in WA. So there's quite a number of contractors, myself included, in Western Australia who operate under enterprise agreements and our enterprise agreements mostly mirror the Western Australian Award, which enables contractors to work weekends and stuff without penalty rates. So I don't know, it's pretty much mirrors the pastoral award.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So your contracting runners based around Lake Grace or do you go all over WA?
Speaker 3:Mostly Lake Grace these days. We used to go out to the station country, we used to go out to Leonora and out west to meet the Therra stuff, but these days it's based pretty much around Lake Grace, lake King, udegate and Kelgaran. So it's a basis from about 100Ks from home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know Some small sheep out that way, just sort of 89 or kilo years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, some huge sheep. Actually I always find it interesting that I've got a grower out the road here who decided he was going to get another contractor and so he got a contractor in for Boya Brook and I'm quite good friends with the farmer and anyway I went out there the first year. The guys from Boya Brook turned up and the farmer said to me I was talking with him before I went to the company who sold me, karen, these folks, they can't believe the size of their sheep. They've never seen sheep, so they didn't get a lot. Anyway, quite a lot of big columns here, and when I first started shearing I started shearing at Lake King. I grew up at Lake King, which is another 100Ks east of here, and there's a lot of bongarees around out there and big bongaree with us, and so you learn how to see a big sheep and you learn how to see it with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's sharing a bongaree, whether it be stuff not massavable, I think.
Speaker 3:At least we learn how to shear them, and that's a good thing. It pays nowadays if you've got a shear big sheep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Our friends at Heinegger were keen for us to get you on. But also it's great to have a chat anyway. But I guess we've been through well, you've seen it all, but the last four or five years anyway, where I feel like shear shortage was talked about for decades but it really came home to roost with whether it was caused by COVID or finally the last nail in the coffin was COVID, but obviously it got very, very difficult to find shearers, and I'll get you to comment on that. But also, I guess the discussion I'm keen to have is we deal with farmers and I say that sometimes I get some sloppy shearing jobs done, and then we also hear from shearers that farmers sometimes don't provide the necessary working conditions for them to do their job safely and effectively. So yeah, I guess one of the points of the discussion really is that as a farming industry we need to set ourselves up for success by having good facilities and then we can kind of expect a good job to be done from the shearing side and contract side.
Speaker 3:So on the side where we found ourselves a really short of a star I think it was a track we were going down with getting new entrants into the industry, in that I think we were concentrating with a lot of our training on training people that are already in the industry, and the thought was there that we didn't need to trade so many new people. We had plenty of people there and that all we needed to do was get them up to speed more, and so a lot of money was spent on training people in the industry in shed and trying to know. The thought was, if we can pick them up 10 to 20 sheep a day, we would still cover it, and I think that's where we went wrong and COVID came. We didn't have a lot of new entrants, new Australian entrants into the industry, and we were relying very heavily on the New Zealanders as well as people coming in out of the UK and elsewhere around the world, and so when COVID hit, we really struggled, and so that meant we had to actually do some training, and so through AWI, there was a lot of more emphasis put on training new entrants and novices, and so really for the first time ever, really, you could see guys go to a shearing school learn how to shear and they could come out June 50 or 60 a day and they could jump on the stand because the stand is empty. And so now we're working through that.
Speaker 3:So where we train so many people through that period and South Australia and Victoria, we're trying colossal amounts of people. We've trained a lot in WA and so now I think we're at a stage where we've got a lot of improved shears and they're at 100 to 120 and some a lot more than where they shear. And so now we're changing a bit of the emphasis onto improved shears and so I think we've done pretty well that way as far as industry goes. So on the shoulders of the peaks we've got enough shears. Pretty much we can find shears in the peaks. It's always been that you can't find that shears because all of a sudden every farmer wants to shear in September or whenever, and now in the last year or so everyone's struggled for shed start. So we've put so much emphasis onto shears and that those people who went to shearing school it didn't matter that they got shown how to shed hand at shearing school in Walcrest, but they could get on a stand and that's what they wanted to do. So we missed out that bit in the middle where we didn't put them into sheds as a learner shearer that they had to browse about with breasts until they got there.
Speaker 3:So over the last 12 months or so, especially here in WA, we've put an emphasis on training shed start and whether that be going around to schools, which we've done and I've done here. In late grace we went to the high school and said is there any kids that want to learn how to browse about so they can come out and school holidays and all that. So we ran two workshops in November. We did a two day workshop with the year 1011's and we did a two day workshop with the year 9's. We had nine kids that came out and spent two days to learn that and those kids now want to come and work for us during school holidays. And Mark and Sarah Buscombe at Barrington have done this a lot. They started doing it and they've got a lot of kids that go away to boarding school in Perth. They're farmers, daughters and whatnot and they're all going shearing and doing every spare minute because they see the money they're getting, they're earning $40 an hour and 16, 17 year olds earning $40 an hour.
Speaker 3:They don't ask them for their money, they've got their own. So I think, as far as the training and getting over the shortage of people, I think we're doing quite well now and I do know that Victoria and South Australia where they've got a really good program over there and they've got a lot of state government money into it they're doing really well. So we're coming along Australia wide through AWI. We've set up WooL tags, which is a training set up where we meet. So we've got state WooL tags and we've got a national WooL tag and we're following each other and in the national WooL tag we go back from there to our state base and we have ideas about more training and how we can get people into it and, yeah, it's going really well.
Speaker 1:Tag standing for Trainer Advisory Group or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, WooL Trainer Advisory Group. So that's going really well. I can see some good positives coming for us for finding people and hope for the right people. So if we can have enough people those people that can't share sheep to a standard, we'll find out they've either got to pick up or ship on because they're not going to get a job, which is the way it used to be.
Speaker 1:One of the other initiatives that you're heavily involved with is the. I can't work out whether it's Safe Sheds or Sheds Safe, but it seems to be, depending on which website I'm reading, but with Safe Sheds, and that's obviously a collaboration with AWI, I guess what are the key parts of that booklet? Or I guess what is when you can send a crew out to a job, what's the best scenario that you look for when you're, in terms of what that Sheds setup is?
Speaker 3:So do you want to read a history on that? Yeah, that would be good. So some of the history on that was back in about 2006-2007 or 2005-2006-2007 when the WI Shearing Contract Association went to the WorkSafe Commissioner. He gave our association $25,000 a year to go out and do shed inspections to pick up the standard of sheds, because we go into sheds without toilets, without running water, we've broken steps and all that sort of stuff. For three years we run that program and when we finish that program you could see a real standard lift in the sheds around the place. Some of that was run in conjunction at the same time as elders and nutrient and those guys were running wool things like clipped to cloth and all those sort of things that they ran back then. So that run for about three years and then the funding stopped and we never got any more funding. So in 2017, so we talked about it through our association stuff about trying to get it all running again In 2017, joe Hall from Wool Produce Australia rang me and said Darren, can you sort out something with your association, awi, to get the program up and running again?
Speaker 3:So at that time we had a new executive officer in Valerie Pretzel and she brought with her a lot of wealth of experience in marketing and computer technology and all that sort of stuff. We said about trying to get this program up and running again and applied to AWI for funding and also went to CGU Insurance in WA because they did a lot of work as insurance and so we went to them and applied for some funding. So we got about. I think AWI gave us $50,000 and CGU gave us $20,000 to develop the program. So over the next few years we developed the program and also developed an app with it that you can go into a shared. So the program is set up with four parts to it, so you have an induction, a pre-sharing, a post-sharing and a main full inspection program. So that was all set up so that we could go to a shared as a contractor and preferably we'd go out there before sharing well, before sharing and run through the program with the farmer and leave him with a list or whatever that needed to be fixed and could discuss with him priorities about it, what really needed to have the first as a share contract. I could walk into a shared and there'd be a gate hanging off a catching pin. That had been like it the year before. If you work as walking and see that they're down in the dumps already, what do we come back to do? You want to wipe it off? Come back to this shithole, for, because nobody cares, the rubbish bins are still full and overflowing and things like that and broken boards and broken steps. So we set about to make it that there was a conduit between the shearers and the grower, and CGU came on board because they could see that if the program got up and got going properly, there'd be less injuries in the shed. So that's where all that was born out of.
Speaker 3:So there's a lot of industry consultation to develop the program through, not just in WA. We consulted with trainers and people in the eastern states as well and in cheering, contractism and people that have worked a lot in the industry. That had a fair idea and really I probably need to take my hat off to Valerie and Henry Rich, who did a lot of the legwork with this in actually putting together. You know flakes like myself. We consulted and stuff and I probably I had a fair bit of input with it, but they done all the legwork and none of that and developed the program.
Speaker 3:And then Valerie, through one of our members got in touch with iAuditor because one of our members had a mic that some in the mining industry and his blood shoes. I audited her a lot or checking things out. So Valerie talked to, I audited her and and we've actually got this program set up, that where we can still change stuff in the program. So they have lists and lists and lists of checklists. But this is our action, our own, and so if things need to be changed around, we can go in and change it and we can collect the data from it. So the data goes back to a central base and we can see what the biggest problems are. So when the most failures are, when you go through the program It'll show up that these points need to be looked at and run it.
Speaker 1:You know, run an advertising campaign to try and get those things, those main things, fix stuff so in terms of how, who, the user of that, that's, sharing contractors are your sort of core user of iAuditor, for, is it or is it?
Speaker 3:any farmer can grab it and use it all so with the, with the Ched safe program, it's just a matter of logging into the right place. Anyone can use it. It's free to use there, you know. But you know iAuditor does have shearing said checklist, but this is specific for our industry and what, what we see we need through it, and so that's why it works really well.
Speaker 1:So it's a, so the iAuditor, the app itself is a pay as you go sort of thing, or it's free as well, it's free.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that's it for me. I think you can use for up to 10. I could use it for up to 10 clients or something. Before, the face of what I do is do it on there, their Logging yeah, so they then. So the thing is that when we we've go through the ship and they can download, I've got it all there on their laptop or their iPad or whatever that they've done it on and then they Log it in and go back and check through their list and or, you know, something happens in the shed, out of the ordinary, if they can, and their work. So come in and say, well, you know this, this and this has happened. Show us where you've done some work in your shed. And so they can then go back to their program and say, well, this is what we've done and we went through it. These were the how we could rectify things and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I like about the concept is it's not Some government telling you to do something, it's the industry sort of helping itself. And yeah, it's a sounds sounds fantastic to, because essentially that's what needs to happen. You can't people coming in from the outside telling you how does how to run a sharing team is not going to work, so but but yeah, um, into an interesting observation that Valerie made, because back in in 2022, valarine I went to Esperance, awi funded.
Speaker 3:We went down to a field day down there in the March and we done or I think we did Don't a shed inspection on the shed where they're holding the a-sheet group, were holding the field day there Autumn field day. So we don't a shed inspection and sort of ran through it with them at the field day and they invite us back. We've got some really good traction out of it. So in the July, valerie and I went down there and we done five days and we done 21 sheds in the five days. We went and inspect them and we done with the growers and all that. And yeah, it was. It was really interesting.
Speaker 3:She picks Valerie doesn't come from a shearing said background and We'd go into a shed and where the wife had organized us to come and do it, because she was the one playing in bed at night wondering who was going to jail when and so we'd walk into a shearing shed and she'd be trying to set up the the farmers wife with on the iPad if they were having trouble and she said it was just a classic one.
Speaker 3:She'd be walked into and the farmer was standing there with his arms folded looking at us to say you know you, what are you? And she said I just walked in there and just just start talking the farmer about I, you know how does it run and all this sort of stuff, and about his farmer stuff. And she said, by the by the time we finished, he was eating out of my hand. You know, I could have told him anything, it was just the fact that you know someone with knowledge had come in there. Yeah, they just talked to him and stuff like that, so it relaxed them. And then farmers work really well with us. We we had a huge response from that and we've already got people that want us to go back and we've got other areas where we, you know, we've gone and done shed inspections.
Speaker 1:Yeah, practical, practical, practical people like to talk to practical people. That's for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's better, and you know it's for benefit of industry, and you know that's that's why we're doing it. It's for our engine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what I should have said when we're seeing Valerie today, valerie pretzel, who's the executive officer there at WA, she put she was industry association. She's actually just gone down with covered, so it's. She's a bit of casualty for today because we were keen to have both of you along, but that's great, we can get it recorded anyway.
Speaker 3:But she's obviously been a powerhouse of the of the association there for a while yeah, yeah, very, very good for our association and, yeah, the expertise in what she does is, you know, worked really well for us excellent.
Speaker 1:We can't obviously get away from the fact that shearing is one of the toughest jobs going around. I don't know, you know the stats, but there's there's very few occupations that are Physically more demanding than than shearing, but it's still still got a romantic attachment to it. There's still people love doing it and love getting on handpiece and and the I don't know. I can always say if you want to run a field day, just put some shearers shearing somewhere and farmers will all turn up because everyone loves to watch. Watch a good shearer. But is it's amazing, amazing process to watch on, very hopeless at it? No, luckily my brother chose to be a good shearer, so I didn't have to. But but yeah, it's a, it's. It is a Unbelievably physically demanding job.
Speaker 3:Well, what did they say? Sheer runs marathon for marathon today, it's yeah, for two a period, and that was that was one thing we found when we got all those learners coming out of out of shearing school but their bodies couldn't cope with it because of the physicality and you know, you've got to train your body and that's where, if they Start off as a shan hand and then oppressor and then come, their bodies are conditioned for that sort of work and that that period. And that's where a lot of people struggle. They, they think they can come and shear.
Speaker 3:I know myself, after not shearing a sheep for Four or five years, that I go back and start doing a few days here and there. You have a lot of different places. That it's like riding a bike you never forget. You know you can go out there and well and Cheer away and I actually enjoy it. Well, I could. Probably. I hadn't gone off contracting, doing other things, I would probably be still shearing and enjoying it, because I don't know, it's something about working with a group of people all the time and me meeting lots of different people and, yeah, just the camaraderie of the industry it's. It has changed a lot over the years but it's still there, that camaraderie still there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's been a fair bit of it. Well, yeah, there's innovations trying to happen, I guess, to To reduce the physicality and whether that's I mean obviously the back brace, whatever you call the camera work. All the things are spring Like they're pretty much or pretty standard these days, and I guess there's things like I know a WI working on sort of other things to support the body While, while shearing, and then obviously different ways of getting the shape to the shear and that sort of stuff. What are your, what are your predictions as to what's gonna happen in in chair?
Speaker 3:I don't think you get rid of the shearer in any of the curry um. One thing I that's been a fair bit of money and stuff with is some shearing shed design and I quite like the concept of the race delivery system. So there's a shed down at South Gardner Jarrod King shed that's been set up with the race delivery system and and I went down there when they had the field day down there and last year you before, and I think it's great concept. You know, if anyone's wanted to build a shearing shed nowadays you know you can see it on the screen I wouldn't even bother putting the catch in pinning.
Speaker 3:I think the race delivery system takes all that stress off the shearers body. Whether they, the sheep, go one way or the other. It's not really there. I think it's just the fact that you don't have to drag sheep and they were shearing big sheep down there that day and a guy that sheared for me for many years was shearing there. I just talked to him and he said you know you don't go home tired at night, you drop the sheep down. It was like you said to me earlier. You know you're dragging a 90 kilo view out. Yeah, someone that's going to shear 200 a day, dragging 90 kilos every time If he can just drop it out.
Speaker 3:And the other thing with the race delivery setup is that the concept of the let out shoot, where instead of being around on a parallel with the board, it's out on an angle, so when you finish the sheet, it's front-feeder down that shoot and it walks away.
Speaker 3:Because a lot of the old sheds we go to and it's a big shoot a lot of the sheds we go to the shoots are narrow, the sheep are too big for them and there's a lip or something there that the sheep and you've got to push every sheep down. That's where a lot of injuries come from. I've seen that over the years and I think the race delivery system is such a great concept and I think over East they found, through the floods and all that, where they couldn't get sheep to shearing sheds. They came in there with portable race delivery platforms and they lined them up in the shed and they were running six and seven stands in a line and just pumpkin sheep to just in a big shed and I think, yeah, that way is just the way of the future as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't be able to shed. I wouldn't recommend anyone build a shed with catching things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Really good point. They could do the mass. A good shearer could be out there could be dragging 20 ton a day. It's a lot of sheep to shift out of a catching fan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they talked about productivity 10% more as far as roof hook, because they didn't spend that time dragging For the guys who weren't Russian. They just hit the sheep out in a way they can't stand up and stretch and back again. So it's a very good concept.
Speaker 1:I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about, but a good shearer does well. They make it look easy anyway. The actual shearing process is less physically demanding than that drag, and particularly if every sheep has to get caught and dragged and then pushed through an inappropriate port hole. It's a whole heap of work that doesn't need to happen.
Speaker 3:Interesting I won't mention any names for another contractor that operates not far out of Perth and he's getting on a bit and his knees were bugger. There was a bloke along there and he thought he was racing for the day and this bloke said the other guy could shear him that quick that he was taking all his time getting him out of the pen down the hole and he was catching him every time he was shearing him that quick. So it's like that he's just taking changes Changes in the bloke.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, excellent. So, as a business, these days you're finding plenty of staff, and apart from shed hands is now the new challenge you reckon.
Speaker 3:It has been. Personally, I've had too many shed hands this year and all good, mostly really good experience. Shed hands had a little bit of trouble trying to form a wool presser, but we're running three teams. I was grizzling one day to someone else a shearer or so short and they said to me oh, I don't know what you're grizzling about. You've got three teams going there and you're managing to start from pretty well up in the odd day. But yeah, this year I found stuff pretty good. So we do.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty traditional in that I maintain shearing quarters and I always have a cook on as well, where you know, so people don't have to try and find accommodation. That's up to me to try and find their accommodation. So that's something I've always done and I felt it at pace off in the end, because you can get people, they'll come, and if you, all they got to do is get out of bed in the morning and walk into the kitchen and eat breakfast and then hop on the bus and then they come home at night. They just got to hop off the bus and have a feed, and I think that makes it a lot easier and also nutrition for the people that are working for you that you know. You know they're actually getting the feed. They're not living on two minute noodles or whatever out at the local shop.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that helps us out in a fair way, a fair few ways, and with that we also seem to get a few learners. So we're always, we're always running at least one learner in every team and people say, how come you can always find a learner? Well, because they don't want to look after themselves. Most of those guys They've got enough to do. They're trying to look at how to see a sheep and stuff like that. So, yeah, looking after them is a big point and that's something I really emphasise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome and yeah, 100% right. It's the same as a farmer putting a great sharing shed in front of you and but you're putting great facilities in front of your staff.
Speaker 3:It's definitely the way to maintain staff and get staff is by having reputation for looking after them, so that all makes sense and over the years we've just worked with all our growers and just made our facilities as best we can. It hadn't been hard, you know. It's just matter. Like I said before, it's a matter of communication with your grower and speak to them civilly, that you know they will do things and it's only matter of asking them.
Speaker 3:A couple of years ago we were shearing at a shed just south of town. We share there the first week of January every year and I got some water coolers and I took a water cooler out there and put in the shed and the farmer thought it was really good. So after shearing and he told me, he rang me and he said DARREN, I really like the idea of your water cooler in the shed. And he said we had a good wool click this year and we earned a bit of extra money above budget and we've done really well. And he said I think I would like to spend some money in the shed and I'll buy a water cooler and put it in there permanently. And anyway I said yeah, no, that's a good idea and I'll sell my wife and she said why don't you go back to him and tell him that if he got a bit extra money. Perhaps he should spend the money and put some EVO shearing heads in there and take the shaft drive down, anyway. So I rang you back and had a good chat with him and I said you know, you said you had a good wool click this year and you made that extra money. How about you spend some and take the shaft drive down and put your EVOs up?
Speaker 3:And I'm pretty sure in the Safe Sheds book there's a picture of four brand new EVOs hanging up in the sky and that's where it goes. You know, it's a matter of talking to them and I think probably well over 90% of our sheds, probably more than that, they've all got EVOs in them. And another shed I took the farmer in to get an EVOs and I'm standing there the next year and that was a shaft drive and I think the picture that one's in the book too and I stand at the back of the shed with the farmer's father and he's shaking his head. And I said what's wrong, jim? And he goes. It's a travesty, darren. He goes.
Speaker 3:That shaft drive has been there for so long and it was beautiful shaft drive and you've talked this into change and put these EVOs up he says I don't like it. I said well, jim, let's just turn around and look out the door. See that old 9G tractor over there. You're not you're cropping with that anymore and I know it still runs and runs really well. He just looked at me and he goes I guess you've got a point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:A lot of farmers don't like change. But you know we all got a point, we all got to move on somewhere and if we can make our conditions in our sheds better for our staff, it's going to make it a lot easier to retain staff and keep staff in the industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and WA is probably the biggest difference between investment in sheep infrastructure versus cropping infrastructure. So there'll be lots of people with several millions of dollars worth of gear in a shed next door to the sharing shed and then the old shaft drive that's been there for a hundred years, so that's never wasted on me, no but the other thing there with that is that you know I could put up a two or $300,000 shed to put some hay in and it's a total tax document right off the tax document.
Speaker 3:But sharing shed is not.
Speaker 1:What about if you put a hay shed with a little bit of a ego on the side of it to go?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know that's one of the anomalies of it. You know that's a hay shed or a fodder shed. You can totally ride it off the road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone knows, Just in terms of just to send that Evo message home properly in terms of safety for your people on the ground, what is it? What is it main? Sharing with an Evo versus sharing with a shaft drive If something does go wrong?
Speaker 3:If you've got an Evo you know it's got the anti lock up system in it and should it fail it's only a matter of a call to Heinegger and they'll sort that up. But the other thing with the Evo is the noise difference. So you know you can pull up at a shear and check, and everyone to be sure, and if the stereo is, not blasting the walls off, it's kind of so you better hear the stereo from the town next door If the stereo is not blasting the walls off, you won't hear the machine's working.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because of the quietness of them. So straight away you take all that noise problem away from a shear as right ear. So looking down the track you're not going to be stuck with a claim against your forgiveness on that right ear. The other thing with them is the smoothness of the drive. So with the old, with the old listers and some beams and stuff, you've got hooks and eyes and all that sort of stuff. I know the later some beams and listers are changed to screw together. But you don't have, you don't have the rattle in it. So an Evo down tube is so smooth compared to all those others. So you know you don't then get the wrist and that and the tennis elbow injuries from an Evo, yeah right. So yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And if you have to lift them down or something, I don't know how many workers' complaints I've had from people lifting down an old sharing plant. That's a good lift, at least an Evo. It's only a few kilos and you can toss them around for the easy.
Speaker 3:So you know that's you know with Heinegger we're doing that and the safety of you know the wall presses and stuff with the door. So this, it wouldn't be too many sheds in WA that are not TPW sheds or Heinegger. You know Heinegger sheds, you know with the door and a lot of a lot of presses complain about the door and it's slower but it's not slow. You know I've pressed enough fails in my life to know the difference. It's just the different technique. You know. At least you can put a wall pack in very easy and you know you can get them out. The ease of use of the TPW Heinegger, it's much easier than most of them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Excellent, Darn. That's been a fantastic chat and, yeah, some great information in there and just get great to hear the story really and, yeah, awesome to see all the good work happening and yeah, we're passionate parts of the shape industry here and so we we need we need the sharing industry to be absolutely prospering. So it's great to hear that all the good work going on to make sure we've got young people coming in and enjoying the industry so we can keep producing the fantastic wall and getting it out to those global customers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no worries and thank you. You know, part of part of us getting a lot more younger people into our industry and stuff is the coverage we get through media and all that sort of thing. And here in WA, you know, we work pretty closely with, with countrymen and the farm weekly and places like that that we get it. We get a lot of coverage and we get a lot of good coverage and so you know, it's probably like you say, it's a good story. Someone sees a story and then people want to know more about it, and so we we try and work that way that you know people hear it and people want to know about it. So, yeah, it's, it's good to be able to work with all different types of media to be able to get our story out there and continue. You know, the good stories about a great industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, fantastic and congratulations to you and Valerie for all the hard work and yeah, great, great to see all that happening and yeah, all the best over there and I'm sure it's a nice warm sharing shed that you're off to soon or something. But yeah, it's about, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm hoping they'll stay at the shed all day. We've been there well, one shed anyway. We've been there for about two weeks and I'm hoping to clean the job up and they will finish today if they manage to get a full day. So that would be it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, clean one up. Excellent. Thanks, Darren.
Speaker 3:Thanks very much. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 1:Cheers, mate. Thanks again to our mates at Heinegger, who are proud world leaders in the manufacturing and supply professional sheep shearing and clipping equipment. They understand that their customers rely on the quality and performance of their products each and every day. Also, thanks to our friends at MSD Animal Health in Orflix, they offer an extensive livestock portfolio focused on animal health and management, all backed up by exceptional service. Both of these companies are wonderful supporters of the Australian and New Zealand livestock industries and we thank them for sponsoring the HIPAA podcast.